Chloe Zhao is an indisputably talented and knowledgeable director who made the movie she dreamt of making as a fan. Guided and supported by Kevin Feige, they made a love letter to Jack Kirby whose comics, esp. the eponymous Eternals, are very dense both in design and substance. They knew from the start it would be a hard sell, not just because these were obscure characters but because they were introducing a new mythology based on Kirby's work that even hard core comics fans didn't take to. They went further outside the box from the familiar and formulaic of Marvel's past successes, going deeper, broader, and exploring more complex ideas and characters than others had attempted. It's the reason why their first move was to recruit Angelina.
The cast, who apparently bonded very well, expressed pride in their director, their diversity, their groundbreaking film, and being part of the MCU. They made a film that's bursting with ambition they all felt proud of. They would have been a lot happier if it had landed better.
Critical reception is an undeniable part of the discussion but how Eternals scores relative to the other MCU films is less important since they've intentionally tried to shake things up with far less accessible material. Nevertheless, as Clayton Davis said in Variety, its RT score landing lower than Thor Dark World and Iron Man 2 is baffling. Greg Ellwood noted that some of the takes on Eternals are nuts. There are clearly extraneous factors at play, and as Variety commented, the low overall score was not for reasons onscreen.
I think the key take away for Feige and Zhao, who are used to receiving universal raves, is that their ambitions for the film were fine but they needed to make the delivery of their message easier. A big part of that is managing audience expectations. The film has many surprises but some of those didn't have to be a surprise. The audience could have been better prepped instead of seeing much of what they were led to expect upended. The story shifts and pivots so it demanded the audience listen carefully to long expositions and take note of the visual details that give important clues. Superhero movie audiences are not used to having to think a lot about the plot and nothing that was said or shown beforehand prepared them. Eternals tackles many deep and big ideas -- humanity, love, purpose, family, loyalty, unity, duty, betrayal, guilt, truth and free will among others. All those ideas in one superhero movie is what sets it apart and makes it more ambitious than the Marvel movies that came before it. The many twists and surprises and frequent time jumps were a distraction that made the task of following 10 new characters and their complex story more difficult and some who went in expecting a breezy eternals vs. deviants film simply gave up trying.
Angelina said, "There was a final script, but I don't know if it's secrets or also all the individual character development that everybody was doing as it was going along, so you would be surprised by your fellow actors, or some things they added or choice that was made that made something more than you'd expect. I went into it still not sure what the end was going to be. I knew what happened to me in the end, but I was surprised at what happened to the other people in the end. I had no idea. I had no idea what happened to the other group in the end." Zhao said, "We really were encouraged to leave everything on the table. Don’t think about the future. Don’t plan everything out. Make the best film we can make. Don’t leave anything. Everything out of my sleeves. It’s all here." And indeed it is. The one year delay in its release may have led Zhao to over think and over stuff it beyond the audience's capacity to appreciate. Her dense script would make a good novel.
I liked the film more than I expected to. It has themes and characters that are Shakespearean. It had Zhao's stunning golden hour landscape shots interspersed with equally beautiful closeups with the camera lingering leisurely. Its Marvel DNA is evident in the action and the bittersweet resolution but it is never drowning in CGI or overly busy or superfluous action sequences. It is a very smart film. A lot of thought was given to every detail and every twist. It is so dense I am eager to see it again as I am sure there are points I missed. I think it will age well.
Angelina lavished praise on the team at Marvel and Marvel promotion has been focused on her from the start. It's an acknowledgement that she is the big audience draw even if it oversold the size of her role. Thena is very dynamic and exciting to watch in action mainly because you can see it's really her with minimal reliance on stunt doubles or special effects. She also has more dramatic heft. She said she does not want to make a solo film without her eternals family but the next Eternals will undoubtedly have much more of a now functional Thena. She has plenty of time, the only other future project she referenced having was directing -- Unreasonable Behavior based on Dan McCullin's autobiography with Tom Hardy.
The big question is whether Zhao will direct Eternals 2. The cast will undoubtedly want her back. She said she would return to work for Marvel in a heartbeat with the right project -- probably a reference to being given the same freedom to stick to her vision. Marvel supported her vision for Eternals knowing it was very ambitious and tinkered with audience expectations, and its support hasn't wavered. Victoria Alonso, Marvel Studios’ president of physical and postproduction, visual effects and animation production recently said, "“We have tried to stir it up and sometimes the critics are not with us. That’s OK. That’s OK. We thank you for being a critic. We thank you for writing about us. And the fans will decide." Eternals may still make more globally than Shang Chi. It is less than $100M behind Black Widow after just its 2nd weekend. Zhao had said, "So we will see how things go. And then there’s no need to plan the future until we see this child’s new growth period and how things turned out." Word of mouth is helping the general audience find it. But Zhao's confidence in her original vision may have been shaken by the hysterically hostile reaction from critics. The decision on whether to stay the course will probably go all the way up to Disney CEO Bob Chapek. It will be a measure of how brave and bold they all are willing to be.
With Everyone Fighting Over ‘Eternals,’ What’s Next for Marvel’s Future?
By Adam B. Vary
“Eternals” was always meant to shake things up.
When Chloé Zhao first met with Marvel Studios about the possibility of directing the film, she was told from the start by the company’s executives that “Eternals” was seen internally as a reset button for the Marvel Cinematic Universe after the conclusive events of 2019’s “Avengers: Endgame.” It would be a way to cleanse the studio’s storytelling palate from the Infinity Saga, and set up the next decade of MCU narrative possibilities. While characters in “Eternals” do mention other Marvel luminaries (Thanos, Iron Man, Steve Rogers etc.), no one from the previous 25 feature films in the MCU makes an appearance — the first time that’s ever happened in the MCU. (Even “Doctor Strange” includes Thor in its post-credits scene.) It’s as close to a clean slate as an MCU movie has ever been.
“This was Marvel’s hope, you know,” Zhao told Variety the day after the film’s world premiere in October. “From the beginning, they told me that this film will explore the origin of the MCU, therefore redefining a lot of things. It will have repercussions to the future of the MCU.”
Divisive critically and less-than-stellar commercially, it’s fair to say that “Eternals” has indeed made quite an impact for Marvel Studios — if not quite like the company intended. But let’s not overstate things: Why else would Marvel hire a filmmaker with as singular a creative vision as Zhao — to tell a story that re-writes no less than the origins of human civilization and the universe itself — if not to shake up what a Marvel movie could be?
On a basic level, “Eternals” does set the stage for a cataclysmic event for the MCU at some point in its future. The Eternals, led by Sersi (Gemma Chan), stop a new Celestial from emerging within the Earth and destroying the entire planet. Arishem (David Kaye), the lead Celestial, subsequently appears looming over the Earth, pulls Sersi, Phastos (Brian Tyree Henry) and Kingo (Kumail Nanjiani) into space, and announces that he will judge the fate of the entire planet on their experiences with humanity.
One would expect that, say, Bruce Banner, Doctor Strange, and the leaders of Wakanda will have some opinions about the giant, petrified corpse of a Celestial poking out of the Indian Ocean, let alone a planet-sized god suddenly zapping into orbit and then just as suddenly zapping away. It’s unclear whether Arishem’s threat to destroy the Earth was heard only by the Eternals or the entire planet, but either way, that’s the kind of high-stakes storytelling the MCU thrives on.
But “Eternals” — as a film and as a critical and social media lightning rod — poses an even more intriguing and existential question about the future of the MCU: How will its titles tell those stories?
Since its earliest days, Marvel Studios has earned a reputation, fairly or not, for sanding down its filmmakers’ singular voices to fit inside its cohesive cinematic universe, typified by the lasting sting of Martin Scorsese’s pronouncements in 2019 that Marvel movies are not cinema. It’s true that other filmmakers — especially James Gunn (with the two “Guardians of the Galaxy” movies) and Taika Waititi (with “Thor: Ragnarok”) — have brought more idiosyncratic filmmaking voices to the MCU. But “Eternals” feels like an active rebuke against Marvel’s image as a superhero factory. The studio hired Zhao specifically so she would infuse “Eternals” with an aesthetic and narrative sensibility that stood apart from the rest of the studio’s output to date.
“It’s sort of a National Geographic approach,” Zhao told Variety. “It doesn’t do this crazy thing. It’s just shows you what it is, and then you immerse.” This appears to have been a happy collaboration; Marvel Studios chief Kevin Feige even half-joked to Variety in April that he hoped to be talking up “Eternals” as an Oscar contender following Zhao’s best picture and director wins for “Nomadland.”
Feige can probably keep his tuxedo in storage: Fans and critics alike have found “Eternals” to be an uneasy, even off-putting mix — not quite the MCU, not quite Zhao — and have had no problem expressing their displeasure all over the internet. The reaction has effectively called out Marvel for doing the thing everyone seemed to want them to do: Give an A-list filmmaker greater leeway to make an MCU movie their way.
So will Marvel do it again? The company’s slate is already scheduled for the next two years, from Waititi’s “Thor: Love and Thunder” (due July 2022), which just wrapped, to Peyton Reed’s “Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania” (due July 2023) which is already in production. So any fallout from “Eternals” won’t be evident until the fall of 2023 — and whomever is announced to direct Marvel’s (as yet unannounced) next slate of movies.
It’s also worth underlining that, one, Marvel wanted “Eternals” to be different, and two, Marvel chose “Eternals” as the film to be different. Created by Jack Kirby in a limited run in the 1970s, “The Eternals” was never central to the great Marvel comics narrative. Sure, the title’s origin story for the universe has reverberated throughout the Marvel canon, but as a limited, carved-out narrative many comics fans were free to outright ignore. And, again, Zhao knew this going in.
“We get to really play and make a standalone movie, which I think is a tribute to Jack Kirby,” she said in October. “If you think about Jack Kirby’s ‘Eternals’ run, it was created very much on the periphery of these really popular characters. He was telling stories about something so much bigger through this little group of outcasts.”
Just compare “Eternals” to the next film in the MCU: “Spider-Man: No Way Home.” Debuting in just over a month, “No Way Home” is widely expected to be the highest-grossing film of the year, and the first pandemic-era release to open with over $100 million domestically. Co-produced with Sony Pictures, “No Way Home” also promises to remake not just the MCU, but Sony’s growing suite of Marvel adaptations by unleashing the looser narrative constraints of the multiverse. In fact, no matter how “Eternals” changes the MCU, the multiverse — introduced by the recent Disney Plus series “Loki” and “What If…?” — already has, by opening up an infinite number of possible strands to explore, and paving the way for versions of Tom Holland’s Peter Parker to exist within the MCU and Sony’s separate Marvel-verse.
Also, not to put too fine a point on this, but while Jon Watts has proven to be a lively director of Holland’s “Spider-Man” films, his previous output — including the indie films “Clown” and “Cop Car,” and video shorts for the Onion — had not established him as a unique cinematic voice. If anything, Watts is far more of what most Marvel Studios observers think of when they talk about Marvel’s “house style”: a highly effective and competent craftsperson who disappears into their movies.
Not coincidentally, since his inception in 1962, Spider-Man has lived at Marvel’s very center, so it would stand to reason that Marvel and Sony wouldn’t want to take a big, risky swing with such a valuable character.
And yet, Sony did just that with 2002’s “Spider-Man,” directed by Sam Raimi. A horror auteur with an unmistakable style honed over years as a no-budget indie filmmaker, Raimi brought his sensibility whole cloth to “Spider-Man” and its 2004 sequel, which is still widely considered one of the best comic book movies ever made. By 2007’s bloated “Spider-Man 3,” however, studio demands and commercial considerations had drained away much of Raimi’s voice. The movie made more money than any Spidey film before it ($895 million), but it was widely derided as an embarrassment, and Raimi left the franchise. That prompted the reboot with Andrew Garfield and director Marc Webb, which suffered from the same sense of bloat and creative anonymity, which ultimately drove Sony to its unprecedented partnership to make Spider-Man movies with Marvel Studios.
Meanwhile, Marvel Studios’ follow-up to “Spider-Man: No Way Home” — “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness” — is directed by, yes, Sam Raimi. Much like with Chloé Zhao, it’s hard to imagine why Marvel would hire Raimi and not want him to do his thing. We’ll know soon enough; the film has wrapped and is currently scheduled to debut in May 2022.
Uproxx: Chloé Zhao Explains Key Decisions In ‘Eternals’ And Could ‘Star Wars’ Be In Her Future?
There are more than a few things in Chloé Zhao’s Eternals we’ve never really seen before in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Most of the conflict in Eternals comes from within the Eternals themselves. One of the main arguments in the film comes from the Eternals’ primary mission, which is to protect Earth, but only up until a point. After this point, Earth will be destroyed, which will bring millions of new planets and life to existence. Ikaris (Richard Madden) believes the group should finish its mission. Most of the other Eternals, led by Sersi (Gemma Chan), have grown to like Earth and do not like this plan and vow to stop it from happening. (Some possibly minor spoilers ahead.)
But then something truly interesting happens when Kumail Nanjiani‘s character, Kingo, a fan favorite throughout the movie (at least he was at my screening), decides not to fight. He believes they should complete the intended mission, which would sacrifice Earth. But he also will not use violence to defend his position. So, he simply leaves. A scene in the movie that seems like something very personal to Zhao herself. Which, as she confirms, it very much is personal and she doesn’t know what side she’d be on if put in this situation.
Another scene we discussed (which, in reviews, has caused some controversy) is that of Phastos (Brian Tyree Henry), an emotional wreck while lamenting about the part he played with the mass destruction at Hiroshima. It is a very pointed decision for Zhao to use this particular moment in human history and, ahead, she explains why.
And then there’s Star Wars. Before this interview, I was told by a friend of Zhao’s that she’s a huge fan of Star Wars. With emphasis on the word “huge,” while extending the “U” sound. “Huuuuuuuuge.” I, innocently, bring this up to Zhao who, once I did, well, she had that look on her face like, “something might be up and I’m sure as heck not going to tell you about it right now.” Could the Oscar-winning director be interested in helming a Star Wars movie?
A scene I’m curious about, there’s a battle about to start and Kumail Nanjiani’s character, Kingo, says he doesn’t agree with what they are fighting for, but won’t try to stop the rest of the Eternals. This felt like something personal to you. Is there anything to that?
Oh, man. Thank you. First of all, three days of press, thank you, you’re the only person ask me about that.
Really? I thought you’d be like, “This question again?”
I really, really thank you for that, because that is one of my, personally, most important moment in the film. Because we would like to, through this film, the idea to challenge some of the foundations of this genre. We really do feel like we’re entering the revisionist stage of superhero genre – I think at the edge of it. And the idea of black and white morality, the ideas of humans are automatically worth saving, things like that. What does strength look like? And also, the idea that you have to always punch your way through everything. You have to be violent physically to be heroic, as long as you’re on the right side. So we’re trying to have a movie where there isn’t… I mean, obviously, we want Earth to survive, but it’s going to be a tough decision and Kingo is an extremely complex character.
He loves Earth. He’s having a good time.
He loves Earth, but he has strong beliefs, just like Ikaris. He’s no different than Ikaris in terms of his faith for the Celestials and believing in the greater good: The fact that human beings and Earth doesn’t have the right to break out of the natural order. He believes that. However, the big difference between him and Ikaris is that he might believe something personally, but he does not believe that he should hurt other people for his beliefs.
That seems like you saying that, too.
I think if we give humanity the choice, how many of them would choose? I’m curious, because it would be a tough one for me. It would be a tough decision for me, personally. And I think a lot of us might sit this one out. We might be like, “You know what, I’m not going to play God. Maybe we should sometimes humble ourselves and let nature take its course.”
See, that’s the thing I can’t figure out, if you’re on Sersi or Ikaris’s side? I honestly don’t know.
It’s a tough one. And I have friends around me who have different opinions about it and they change. Sometimes they would go, “Actually, today because of what happened in the world, I’m more with this person now.” So, it was a decision, not easy to make. A lot of discussion went into it. We also talked to Kumail about it. It is a brave decision for superhero film character to take.
And you said there were discussions. How serious did those discussions get? Because I could see some difference of opinion there.
Very serious, because we are putting a character at risk, for the audience, a beloved character at risk. Because we have 10 characters, we have to try to do something different, give each of them a different perspective. And I would say this is personal. I think it’s one of the bravest things someone did in this movie is decide not to fight, not to hurt people for their beliefs.
Right. I’ve never seen anything like that before. I’m glad there was something to that.
Thank you. There’s a first sex scene, first this and that, but there is also this first. I’m glad, I’m so happy you recognized it.
When I talk to directors of Marvel movies and ask if they want to do another one, I kind of already know what the answer is going to be, I’m just curious how they’re going to word it. with you, I have no idea. You just won an Oscar. Maybe you’re like, “I’d like to do one and then do something else.”
I’ve been a fan of the MCU, and this process. I loved working with the team at Marvel. So I’ll be back working with them in a heartbeat with the right project. And with Eternals, we really were encouraged to leave everything on the table. Don’t think about the future. Don’t plan everything out. Make the best film we can make. Don’t leave anything. Everything out of my sleeves. It’s all here. So, now in this very moment, this film is more yours than mine.
No, it’s not. It’s yours.
No.
I saw the credits, you’re in them. I’m not in them.
I know, but this is yours, because the film is going to grow with you, with the audiences, and it’s going to find its own identity. It’s out of my hands now. So we will see how things go. And then there’s no need to plan the future until we see this child’s new growth period and how things turned out.
I’m also curious how you picked the eras and places for the flashbacks. Like Hiroshima, a very interesting choice that I feel was a very pointed choice.
Wow. You are really on point. You’re the first person asking me that.
That’s very surprising.
No, it’s very surprising to me as well. I think, again, the weight of it, I think people might even feel uncomfortable asking, because there’s so much. And then that is also a discussion we’ve had many times, and including in post-production, in the edit. Personally, I do think it’s a crime against humanity. It’s not about which side you pick. It’s also a turning point in the psyche of us as a species. And after that moment, we’re never the same again. So for Phastos – who had this big belief and faith and positivity about who we are, of humanity – he believes as long as they advance, advance, advance, advance, they would be perfect. They would be fine. And that was a big wake-up call for him.
And then, from that disappointment, he has to focus on the smallest thing about humanity: not the biggest accomplishment, but the love of a family, the love of a lover, of his husband. And that’s when he can regain our humanity. It’s similar to us today. We turn on the news, we look at the big, clear picture, it could get pretty bleak. But if you go home, you look into the eyes and your parents or your child, your lover, you might regain some faith in humanity. And that’s sort of Phastos’ arc, and why Hiroshima was in the film.
On a lighter note, someone who knows you said you are a huge, and put a bunch of u’s in the word “huge,” Star Wars fan. I did not know that.
[Laughs] It’s true.
You should do one of those. I’d be in for one of those movies too from you.
[Laughs] Would you? I love how you buttered me up with those questions for the first 10 minutes? No, just kidding. No, look, I’ll be lucky if I get to play in the Star Wars universe. But, as you know, again, just like the MCU, the universe is so grand with so many incredible characters. And I think if I ever get the chance, it’s got to be the right story, the right character.
Well, obviously I would have liked to see a take from you in Star Wars anyway. But now knowing that you’re super into it, even more so now.
We did Comic-Con for Eternals, the first time they announced the project. And I went on the stage with this T-shirt and Kevin, first thing he said once I got on stage was, “Tell them what’s this on your T-shirt.” And it was, “I had friends on that Death Star.” It was a very sad Stormtrooper sitting in a chair, crying.
You can contact Mike Ryan directly on Twitter.
Nomadland is a masterpiece but yes some of the takes on Eternals are nuts
— Gregory Ellwood - The Playlist 🎬 (@TheGregoryE) November 2, 2021
It does find its stride after an awkward start — very silly really but visually stunning
— Anne Thompson (@akstanwyck) October 19, 2021
Marvel Studios' #Eternals is the Marvel event you can't miss! 🔥 Get tickets now to experience the film in theaters Friday: https://t.co/SnXQiLEx7t pic.twitter.com/fM03oloxLb
— Disney (@Disney) November 2, 2021
‘Eternals’ Stars Talk Angelina Jolie’s Halloween Party and On-Set Christmas Shopping https://t.co/pFHKRHowxz
— Variety (@Variety) October 31, 2021
Happy Halloween! pic.twitter.com/yjqHMwqltS
— Asad Ayaz (@asadayaz) October 31, 2021
One week till #Eternals. Chloe made an extremely ambitious & massive sci fi superhero epic. I’m thrilled to be a part of the cast she assembled to execute her stunning vision. You can see some of it in the new spot below. Tickets: https://t.co/lTSMptBZJLhttps://t.co/fGZUKdrVoe
— Kumail Nanjiani (@kumailn) October 29, 2021
The Domo is coming! Transport yourself to the #MCU in the biggest way possible—with up to 26% more picture in IMAX theatres. Filmed for IMAX, Marvel Studios’ #Eternals arrives November 5. Get your tickets: https://t.co/8KVngh9ssB pic.twitter.com/5eb1mXiwzn
— IMAX (@IMAX) October 29, 2021
I know you, I walked with you once upon a dream
The content is moderate in impact.
