Every time there is an interview appearing in a foreign language publication, we run into the same problem. Her answers were in English, translated to French, and now we are translating them back to English. Even with interviews in English you have to trust that when the Q & A is not presented verbatim, that the summary accurately captures their true intended meaning. That is critical especially in a situation like this where they are being purposely vague. When you then place two translations on top of that, the problem gets magnified thrice over.
I am sure there will be an English interview coming out very soon that will be more enlightening -- where we can see her actual words and phrasing. (And speaking of which, with less that 2 weeks before release, her usual cover and in-depth interview for Maleficent Mistress of Evil is coming out a bit late. Brad's NY Times interview appeared Sept. 4, over two weeks ahead of Ad Astra's Sept. 20 release.) They've progressed much further since July as manifested by Brad's rings and bracelets. He was more open in his September NY Times and various later interviews than he was with GQ in July, and that took place after Angelina's trip to Paris. It will be interesting to see what she will be willing to say given that those interviewing her during Maleficent's press day were told she would not be answering personal questions.
One thing that stands out without need of translation is that she never mentions "divorce." She makes no reference to the filing or the case. She does not give so much as a hint of the incident on the plane, the children's trauma or the efforts to restore Brad's relationship with the children.
She avoided any reference to the divorce case because it doesn't reflect their true situation. But at the same time she could not yet reveal what their situation really is, so she referred to them obliquely, euphemistically. She used "the end of my relationship with Brad" to stand for the incident on the plane -- because the incident led to the filing and the filing implies the end of the relationship. "Separation" stands for everything that resulted from that incident. The end thus led to "the beginning of our separation." So when she said "with the separation, I had to reassess my choices: I find it necessary to be present with my children and not to be absent constantly" what she meant but couldn't say was: the children needed counseling to help them recover from the trauma and she needed to stay home with them. And when she said "the circumstances of my separation mean that I had to relocate to Los Angeles, because Brad wants to continue living there" what she was referring to was: Brad can't be away from L.A. for too long because that's where his therapist, AA meetings, Dr. Katz, and the mental health professionals who are guiding the effort to restore his relationship with the children are based. She also said, "I'd rather travel more often, but it's not compatible today with Brad's work. I'm cooperating." The earlier sentence pertains to why she is based in L.A. instead of "Europe, France, Paris." The latter sentence pertains to why she does not travel more often even though she would like to. It is because Brad needs and wants her by his side and cannot "work" without her, and she places his needs ahead of her own. Both ways, that spells love.
Referring to the immediate aftermath of the plane incident, she said "It was a complicated time. When I didn't recognize myself anymore, when I had become smaller, insignificant." She was the only one who didn't need counseling or therapy but there was not much she could do to speed up everyone else's recovery. She tried to help "bridge the gap" between Brad and the kids, but the effort still progressed very, very slowly. In reply to a Twitter question on whether she kept her horns, she said, "I do have my horns and staff. Just for...You know...It'll be that moment, you think: 'Is that going to be me? My kids grow up, they're out of the house, I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling: I wish I were powerful, I'm feeling small.'" She equates feeling powerless with feeling small and that was how she felt when the efforts to reconcile Brad and the children stalled. They had to think of a more creative and drastic way to force the children to open up to Brad, and that led to the May 30 Order and then the Judgement on status.
She said, "I felt a deep and genuine sadness, I was hurt." Going back to Sept. 2016, a "family member" spoke to People right after she filed: “Her family is broken and she is in agony,” the relative says. “Her children are recovering from the events that brought about the filing of the divorce.” If she wanted to describe her reaction to Brad's behavior on the plane she would have probably said she was very upset. That she was sad and hurt is her reaction to the family being torn, and while Brad's behavior was the initial event, it was the DCFS who forced them apart and "brought about the filing." She was shielding and protecting Brad in this and all other interviews and so never hinted that it was his problems that put them in this situation. That was left to him.
He essentially turned most of his Ad Astra interviews into a confessional, albeit still guarded. He was penitent and remorseful but without saying exactly what for. He said he grew up with a definition of masculinity that led him to hide his weaknesses and vulnerabilities from the children -- hinting that it made his task of reconciling with them more difficult because they didn't understand what happened to him. He went on to detail his efforts to be "better with the people I love," a better father and husband. That he cleaned up -- he joined AA and "withdrew his drinking privileges," and apologized and made amends to everyone he needed to. (He also never mentioned "divorce" -- in response to a direct question he referred to it as "A breakup of a family." They have been consistent from the very start.) He apparently went through a fragile period and that may be why Angelina caters to him. She indicated her support: "I think it is not said enough how much we need the men in our lives to be strong and capable and the best they can be.” And added "we're all human and very flawed." Just a few days ago she said, "The real truest love pulls out your best self. It's what you value, what you're loyal to and what you're willing to fight for."
Related to the topic of her acting, she had said in an interview with Hello also in early July: "I can't be what my family needs me to be while I'm directing -- it takes a lot more time and effort to direct and I look forward to being able to do that again when things are better." So it is interesting that the L.A. Times wrote after the premiere "Come the next “Maleficent,” Rønning may be out of a job, as Jolie told reporters her next ambition is directing, and she’s already begun to think like a visionary." That may be a sign that things are already good enough for her to consider her next directing project. And that this period of separation may be officially over soon.
On the matter of her desire to travel more often, Brad said recently, "We settle in places or get sucked into a place sometimes because of a job or for family, speaking of which, my kids have probably eight more years of school to keep us relatively in one spot." So when all the kids are in College they should be able to travel more freely. He does not have films lined up at the moment and has said he will be doing less and less. So he should be free to travel with her wherever it is she wishes to go before they retire in a mountain somewhere. In this interview she expressed a desire to live in France (she has also expressed her love for Samlout in the Cardamom mountain region of Cambodia). Miraval -- which they plan to transform into a "leading artistic venue"-- is of course in France, and it is also on a mountain.
-- Fussy
Madame Figaro
(via Microsoft translator)
Angelina Jolie. - It's been a while since I came here, and I miss Paris terribly.
Mrs. Figaro. - Especially since you are a little French by your mother...
Paris has a I-don't-know-what that does good to the soul. In your city, we are immediately encouraged to adopt a different, more open, freer approach... Suddenly, I feel more like a woman. Because my femininity can vary depending on the context. I have to juggle several statutes: the actress, the director, the activist, the mother of six children. And then, the circumstances of my separation mean that I had to relocate to Los Angeles, because Brad wants to continue living there. Europe, France, Paris, it's a whole different life, it's not my daily life, alas...
Is there a hierarchy between all these different roles and activities?
I answer without hesitation that my role as a mother predominates over everything. In the morning, I wake up, Mom. Today, tomorrow again and forever, in my opinion. Because once you become a parent, you belong to other beings, you don't belong to everything. My whole life and my choices condition the lives of my children. Their needs and priorities are my priority, and I am very attentive to anything that might influence or offend them. So I'm a continuous mother, and it's only when they're in school that I can start my humanitarian and political work. I call my office, write editorials for Time magazine and move forward on many administrative issues. Once all this is over, I can finally devote myself to film.
At the time of the release of the film Unbroken, which you had directed, you had implied that you were going to give up your acting career. Is this still relevant?
That was indeed the case at the time. But with the separation, I had to reassess my choices: I find it necessary to be present with my children and not to be absent constantly. This is not a good time to get involved in long-term projects. In a way, being an actress is easier today, because it's an activity that takes me a little longer. It's been a while since I've been shooting for the movies, and it's a great exercise when you're not doing very well, coming out of a bad patch. Playing a strong character as the evil queen of Maleficent is a form of therapy. Surprisingly, playing a powerful character can really help you rebuild when you don't feel at your best...
Have you rebuilt yourself?
I'm more resilient than before, but it's still a difficult time.
Your image is constantly evolving, you get lost between all your facets: actress, director, activist, editorialist... Did you expect to go down such a path?
I feel like I'm living a cyclical story. For this new Guerlain campaign, I asked the following question: what is expected of me? And the answer was that they wanted me as I had always been. So instead of mitigating my "wild" side, it was accentuated. But you know, I see my life as a path. I'm always looking for freedom, and if I can sometimes seem bold, it's because I don't really choose caution or measure. I own a house deep in the jungle, and I have never refused to go to conflicting territory. I work at the UN, I work with the military, I push myself to live experiences that I feel are necessary for my construction as a human being. I force myself to do things every day that intimidate me and sometimes frighten me. I have never confined myself to physical or emotional comfort: I seek the test of reality.
Do you think you have a destiny?
I don't really know, but since I have children, the only thing that worries me is to lead by example, to be honest, to carry a sincere voice and to guide them in the same way, a path where it is important to be kind to others, to know how to look at them accurately, not to hurt them. And to understand that one has one life and that it is important to fulfill it as usefully as possible. To answer your question, I do not know what my destiny is made of, but what I am convinced of is that I am in a period of transition, like a return to the roots, a return to myself. Because I got a little lost...
that is to say?
I think it happened at the end of my relationship with Brad, then the beginning of our separation. It was a complicated time, when I didn't recognize myself anymore, when I had become... how to say... smaller, as insignificant, even if it was not necessarily seen. I felt a deep and genuine sadness, I was hurt. On the other hand, it was interesting to return to that humility and even that insignificance that I felt. Finally, maybe that's what's human... On top of all this, I have had some health concerns. All these things settle in you and remind you of how lucky you are to be alive. This is yet another lesson to pass on to my children: the idea of renewal, and then, above all, a possible return to the joy of life. I have to rediscover joy...
Last year, I attended your master class in Toronto. You were wearing a long white dress, you were lit by a projector and, at the end of the conversation, everyone stood up and surrounded you kindly, in total silence, just to approach you. You looked like a saint...
(She laughs.) I'm a deeply humanist. I am very touched by people, by turns tender or upset by what is called the human condition. I may take this from my mother, who was absolute goodness, grace and generosity - and that I will never be able to match, even if I try. Society puts enormous pressure on women by requiring them to combine femininity and omnipotence. It is not an easy thing. Along the way, life makes you have to fight, resist, harden. It takes so much effort to regain the sweetness. I see people every day who don't have a gift in life, but I wish us - I hope - to soften in such a violent world.
What do you think of the meToo movement's hegemony in Hollywood? At times, marketing or political correctness seem to trouble the party...
I think Hollywood should have launched an investigation with an outside investigation. That has not been done. It would have taken a more independent look. I often deal with international women's affairs and I think a lot of things need to be reviewed in Hollywood...
Maybe it's up to you to conduct this investigation?
It's not a city I want to focus on...
What does your life look like in Los Angeles?
I'm not really attached to this town. I'd rather travel more often, but it's not compatible today with Brad's work. I'm cooperating.
Maleficent: The Power of Evil, by Joachim Running, with Angelina Jolie, Elle Fanning... Released on October 16.
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Original
Angelina Jolie. - Cela fait un moment que je ne suis pas venue ici, et Paris me manque terriblement.
Madame Figaro. - D’autant que vous êtes un peu française par votre mère...
Paris possède un je-ne-sais-quoi qui fait du bien à l’âme. Dans votre ville, on est tout de suite encouragé à adopter une autre tournure d’esprit, plus ouverte, plus libre... Soudain, je m’y sens plus femme. Car ma féminité peut varier selon les contextes. Je dois jongler entre plusieurs statuts : l’actrice, la réalisatrice, l’activiste, la mère de six enfants. Et puis, les circonstances de ma séparation font que j’ai dû me réinstaller à Los Angeles, car Brad veut continuer d’y vivre. L’Europe, la France, Paris, c’est une tout autre vie, ce n’est pas mon quotidien, hélas...
Existe-t-il une hiérarchie entre tous ces différents rôles et activités ?
Je vous réponds sans hésitation que mon rôle de mère prédomine sur tout. Le matin, je me réveille maman. Aujourd’hui, demain encore et pour toujours, à mon avis. Car une fois devenu parent, on appartient à d’autres êtres, on ne s’appartient plus tout à fait. Ma vie entière et mes choix conditionnent la vie de mes enfants. Leurs besoins et leurs priorités sont ma priorité, et je suis très attentive à tout ce qui pourrait les influencer ou les heurter. Je suis donc une mère en continu, et c’est seulement lorsqu’ils sont à l’école que je peux commencer mon travail humanitaire et politique. J’appelle mon bureau, j’écris des éditos pour le magazine Time et j’avance sur de nombreux dossiers administratifs. Une fois tout cela terminé, je peux enfin me consacrer au cinéma.
Au moment de la sortie du film Invincible, que vous aviez réalisé, vous aviez sous-entendu que vous alliez abandonner votre carrière d’actrice. Est-ce encore d’actualité ?
C’était effectivement le cas à ce moment-là. Mais avec la séparation, j’ai dû réévaluer mes choix : je trouve nécessaire d’être présente auprès de mes enfants et de ne pas m’absenter constamment. Ce n’est pas le bon moment pour m’engager dans des projets à long terme. D’une certaine façon, être actrice s’avère plus simple aujourd’hui, car c’est une activité qui m’accapare moins longtemps. Cela faisait un certain temps que je n’avais pas tourné pour le cinéma, et c’est un excellent exercice quand on ne va pas très bien, qu’on sort d’une mauvaise passe. Jouer un personnage fort comme la méchante reine de Maléfique est une forme de thérapie. Étonnamment, le fait d’incarner un personnage puissant peut vraiment aider à se reconstruire lorsqu’on ne se sent pas au meilleur de sa forme...
Vous êtes-vous reconstruite ?
Je suis plus résiliente qu’avant, mais ça reste un moment difficile.
Votre image évolue perpétuellement, on s’y perd entre toutes vos facettes : actrice, réalisatrice, militante, éditorialiste... Vous attendiez-vous à parcourir un tel chemin ?
J’ai l’impression de vivre une histoire cyclique. Pour cette nouvelle campagne Guerlain, j’ai posé la question suivante : qu’attend-on de moi ? Et la réponse était qu’on me voulait telle que j’avais toujours été. Donc, au lieu d’atténuer mon côté «sauvage», on l’a accentué. Mais vous savez, j’appréhende ma vie comme un chemin. Je suis toujours en quête de liberté, et si je peux parfois paraître audacieuse, c’est parce que je ne choisis pas vraiment la prudence ou la mesure. Je possède une maison située au fin fond de la jungle, et je n’ai jamais refusé de me rendre sur un territoire en conflit. Je travaille à l’ONU, je collabore avec des militaires, je me pousse à vivre des expériences que j’estime nécessaires à ma construction d’être humain. Je me force à faire tous les jours des choses qui m’intimident et qui parfois me font peur. Je ne me suis jamais cantonnée dans un confort physique ou émotionnel : je recherche l’épreuve du réel.
Pensez-vous avoir un destin ?
Je ne sais pas vraiment, mais depuis que j’ai des enfants, la seule chose qui me préoccupe, c’est de leur montrer l’exemple, de me montrer honnête, de porter une voix sincère et de les guider dans le même chemin, un chemin où il importe de faire preuve de bienveillance pour les autres, de savoir les regarder avec justesse, de ne pas les blesser. Et de comprendre qu’on a une seule vie et qu’il est important de la remplir le plus utilement possible. Pour répondre à votre question, je ne sais pas de quoi est fait mon destin, mais ce dont je suis convaincue, c’est que je suis dans une période de transition, comme un retour aux sources, un retour vers moi-même. Car je m’étais un peu perdue...
C’est-à-dire ?
Je crois que c’est arrivé au moment de la fin de mon couple avec Brad, puis au début de notre séparation. C’était un moment compliqué, où je ne me reconnaissais plus, où j’étais devenue... comment dire... plus petite, comme insignifiante, même si cela ne se voyait pas forcément. J’ai ressenti une profonde et véritable tristesse, j’étais blessée. D’un autre côté, il était intéressant de renouer avec cette humilité et même cette insignifiance que j’ai ressentie. Finalement, voilà peut-être ce qui est humain... En plus de tout cela, j’ai connu quelques soucis de santé. Toutes ces choses s’installent en vous et vous rappellent la chance que vous avez d’être vivante. C’est encore une autre leçon à transmettre à mes enfants : l’idée du renouveau, et puis, surtout, un retour possible à la joie de vivre. Je dois redécouvrir la joie…
L’an dernier, j’ai assisté à votre master class à Toronto. Vous portiez une longue robe blanche, vous étiez éclairée par un projecteur et, à la fin de la conversation, tout le monde s’est levé et vous a encerclée gentiment, dans un silence total, juste pour vous approcher. Vous aviez l’air d’une sainte...
(Elle rit.) Je suis profondément humaniste. Je suis très touchée par les gens, tour à tour attendrie ou bouleversée par ce qu’on appelle la condition humaine. Je tiens peut-être cela de ma mère, qui était la bonté absolue, la grâce et la générosité - et que je ne pourrai jamais égaler, même si j’essaie. La société met une pression folle sur les femmes en exigeant d’elles qu’elles allient féminité et toute-puissance. Ce n’est pas une chose facile. Chemin faisant, la vie fait qu’on se retrouve dans l’obligation de se battre, de résister, de s’endurcir. Il faut autant d’efforts pour retrouver la douceur. Je vois tous les jours des gens à qui la vie ne fait pas de cadeau, mais je nous souhaite - je me souhaite - de nous adoucir dans un monde si violent.
Que pensez-vous de l’hégémonie du mouvement MeToo à Hollywood ? À certains moments, le marketing ou le politiquement correct semblent troubler la fête...
Je pense que Hollywood aurait dû lancer une enquête avec une investigation extérieure. Cela n’a pas été fait. Il aurait fallu un regard plus indépendant. Je m’occupe souvent des affaires féminines internationales et je pense que beaucoup de choses sont à revoir à Hollywood...
C’est peut-être à vous de mener cette enquête ?
Ce n’est pas une ville sur laquelle je souhaite me concentrer...
À quoi ressemble votre vie à Los Angeles ?
Je ne suis pas vraiment attachée à cette ville. Je préférerais voyager plus souvent, mais ce n’est pas compatible aujourd’hui avec le travail de Brad. Je coopère.
Maléfique : le pouvoir du mal, de Joachim Rønning, avec Angelina Jolie, Elle Fanning... Sortie le 16 octobre.
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"My questions were how to be more open and more vulnerable.....more appreciateive, I'm certainly with my kids, my parents, the loves in my life. And what were my personal hindrances that were keeping me from being better that or leaving that fully."
