HOPKINS: I’ve read you had a struggle with booze and all that.He first admitted he had a drinking problem in his April 2017 GQ interview, but this is the first time he talked about losing his temper to the point of totally losing control and taking his "hands off the wheel." This is a much bigger admission than simply his drinking. He is moving closer to what actually transpired on the plane.
PITT: Well, I just saw it as a disservice to myself, as an escape.
HOPKINS: And you’re as easy going as ever.
PITT: Pretty much, it’s my gliding speed. But I lose it at times. I get sucked into something, and I can lose it. I take my hands off the wheel.
He was initially in denial that he "lost it" on the plane and the story he gave when news of the DCFS' involvement leaked was that he was drunk when he confronted Maddox. Other reports said he only became drunk after. The tendency to "lose it" is as serious as being an alcoholic but perhaps a more difficult problem to solve. Under the Custody Stipulation he was required to undergo weekly individual therapy and weekly group therapy (Alcoholics Anonymous). He said he continues to have therapy and has added meditation among others to his regular regimen.
I’m realizing, as a real act of forgiveness for myself for all the choices that I’ve made that I’m not proud of, that I value those missteps, because they led to some wisdom, which led to something else. You can’t have one without the other. I see it as something I’m just now getting my arms around at this time in my life. But I certainly don’t feel like I can take credit for any of it.That he struggled to forgive himself for those mistakes gives a hint of their gravity. He now appreciates the constructive side of the experience -- his gaining wisdom, working on self improvement, and being more sensitive and appreciative of everyone and everything around him.
PITT: I am quite famously a not-crier. Is that a term? I hadn’t cried in, like, 20 years, and now I find myself, at this latter stage, much more moved—moved by my kids, moved by friends, moved by the news. Just moved. I think it’s a good sign. I don’t know where it’s going, but I think it’s a good sign.
PITT: What I hear you saying is that as we get older, we get out of our minds, and we’re able to witness the beauty and the wonder that we’re surrounded by in every minute detail. We miss that when we’re young.
PITT: I really feel it outside. I feel it in nature, which I did have moments of when I was a child. But I’m so much more aware of it now, and more in tune with it. There’s so much mystery and so much wonder, and I’m good with that.
PITT: I agree. I’m seeing that these days. I think we’re living in a time where we’re extremely judgmental and quick to treat people as disposable. We’ve always placed great importance on the mistake. But the next move, what you do after the mistake, is what really defines a person. We’re all going to make mistakes. But what is that next step? We don’t, as a culture, seem to stick around to see what that person’s next step is. And that’s the part I find so much more invigorating and interesting.He is telling the world that when he reveals the depth of his mistakes, not to focus only on them but to also see his next steps -- how he worked to make things right.
HOPKINS: Yes. Why do we do the things we do? We have no idea. I don’t know why I drank all my life. I did it because it was the only thing I knew. I look back now and I think, “Well, it wasn’t bad, but I don’t want to do it again.” I caused a bit of damage then, but I’ve made my apologies to people for doing what I did. It’s all part of being alive. And whatever power there is in us, it’s forgiving. It’s over. Forget it. Just move on.He is one of the grays, he made some bad mistakes but he isn't a bad person.
PITT: I find that beautiful. And it makes me think of how prone we are to want to see things in black and white, and not really investigate the grays.
Much of what Brad said during the Ad Astra promo referred to his own personal situation and were not applicable to his character, Roy McBride. He spoke about growing up thinking a father shouldn't show weakness. That was not Clifford McBride's problem -- he only cared about his goal and simply didn't care about his wife or son. Roy didn't have children. It was noted by his superiors in the film that Roy had an exemplary record and his pulse never rose above 80bpm even in stressful situations. So what he said in some of his voice overs -- that he was self-destructive, had screwed up so often, was tough when he should have been tender, etc. -- referred to Brad's own personal real-life situation. The message he gives both in the promo and in the movie itself form part of his admission of his problems, state his commitment to his "next steps," and the family coming back together just as Roy's wife did.
I’ve been playing with sculpture in a sculpting studio the last few years, and our mutual friend said you’ve been painting like a banshee. What is it about that? To me, it’s another form of creating,
“We’re human, we want purpose, we want meaning in our lives.” But to attain that, the key is two things: staying creative and being with the people we love.In a previous interview he said he had been thinking of where he'd want to spend the last stage of his life. His greater appreciation of nature has led him to consider the mountains. He can sanguinely turn his attention to life's end stage because he already has everything he needs to look forward to a meaningful and purposeful long life -- like Frank Gehry's. Sculpture allows him to stay creative autonomously without the necessity of being part of a Hollywood team. The steps he took after his mistakes have enabled him to be with the people he loves.
--- Fussy
Read the rest of @AnthonyHopkins and Brad Pitt's conversation in @InterviewMag: https://t.co/rPCTbA5IOb— Netflix Film (@NetflixFilm) December 2, 2019
Published December 2, 2019
Hopkins first worked with Brad Pitt in 1994’s western epic Legends of the Fall. They reunited for 1998’s fantasy drama Meet Joe Black.
This past October, the two veteran actors met up at a hotel in Beverly
Hills to discuss, among other things, the beauty of embracing our
mistakes
ANTHONY HOPKINS: Yes, I do.
PITT: I’ve come to believe this in the last few years. How do you describe it?
HOPKINS: I’ve been dreaming of elephants. I don’t know why. There was a film I saw, when I was a child, called Elephant Boy. The elephant would take Sabu, the main character, through the jungle, and I remember sitting there with my grandfather watching it. My impression is that I sat on this big beast, whatever it is—life. At some point, I made an unconscious choice to sit on this beautiful, powerful thing. And I just go where it takes me. I think that what happens to people like you and myself. We don’t even know why. Maybe it’s a desire to escape from something. But what I believe now is that we can’t take credit or blame.
PITT: I feel the same. Certainly the credit. The blame I’m still wrestling with.
HOPKINS: What’s the blame?
PITT: I’m realizing, as a real act of forgiveness for myself for all the choices that I’ve made that I’m not proud of, that I value those missteps, because they led to some wisdom, which led to something else. You can’t have one without the other. I see it as something I’m just now getting my arms around at this time in my life. But I certainly don’t feel like I can take credit for any of it.
HOPKINS: I’ve read you had a struggle with booze and all that.
PITT: Well, I just saw it as a disservice to myself, as an escape.
HOPKINS: It was necessary.
PITT: To some degree, yes.
HOPKINS: It’s a gift. I myself needed to hide it, years ago.
PITT: I remember on Meet Joe Black, you were talking about it. You had dumped it.
HOPKINS: Forty-five years, almost. But I’m not an evangelist about it.
PITT: Nor I.
HOPKINS: But I look at it, and I think, “What a great blessing that was, because it was painful.”I did some bad things. But it was all for a reason, in a way. And it’s strange to look back and think, “God, I did all those things?” But it’s like there’s an inner voice that says, “It’s over. Done. Move on.”
PITT: So you’re embracing all your mistakes. You’re saying, “Let’s be our foibles, our embarrassment. There’s beauty in that.”
HOPKINS: It’s great.
PITT: I agree. I’m seeing that these days. I think we’re living in a time where we’re extremely judgmental and quick to treat people as disposable. We’ve always placed great importance on the mistake. But the next move, what you do after the mistake, is what really defines a person. We’re all going to make mistakes. But what is that next step? We don’t, as a culture, seem to stick around to see what that person’s next step is. And that’s the part I find so much more invigorating and interesting.
HOPKINS: We’ve all screwed up.
PITT: “Fuck it.” That was one of the first things I heard you say, back during Legends of the Fall when I was just getting my opportunity. And it always stuck with me. It seems to be a theme, a guiding principle. “Fuck it.”
HOPKINS: I once asked a Jesuit priest, “What is the shortest prayer in the world?” He said,“Fuck it.” It’s the prayer of release. Just say, “Fuck it.” None of it is important. The important thing is to enjoy life as it is. Your life today, it’s fantastic.
PITT: It’s all relative, isn’t it?
HOPKINS: I’ve had such a ball in my life, and I can’t believe I’m here.
PITT: You’re as ferocious as ever. You feel as strong as ever. You’re as vibrant as ever.
HOPKINS: And you’re as easy going as ever.
PITT: Pretty much, it’s my gliding speed. But I lose it at times. I get sucked into something, and I can lose it. I take my hands off the wheel.
HOPKINS: You’re human.
PITT: I’m human. I have the privilege of sometimes getting to hangout with Frank Gehry. He just turned 90 this last year and is as creative as ever, creating some of the great buildings of our time. And it makes me think, “We’re human, we want purpose, we want meaning in our lives.” But to attain that, the key is two things: staying creative and being with the people we love.
HOPKINS: That’s it. I’m so honored that you’re doing this, because you have this natural power of life in you. On Meet Joe Black, you were very quiet and you didn’t cause any trouble. I was the troublemaker on that set.
PITT: I was actually going through a difficult time during that film. I felt pretty shackled. I didn’t feel very free.
HOPKINS: You didn’t?
PITT: Not at all. With Legends I did. I felt pretty good out there. So what was it about The Two Popes? It’s fascinating. Watching you and Jonathan Pryce was like watching Djokovic and Federer in the finals. They’re amazing scenes. It felt pretty special, what you guys were doing.
HOPKINS: Well, it was. I didn’t know Jonathan before. We had such a laugh, because he was number one on the call sheet, and I’d say, “But I’m a Sir.”
PITT: [Laughs] That’s great.
HOPKINS: My agent phoned, and he said,
“The Pope.” And I said, “Okay.” I did a bit of research—not research,
but I tried to figure out the truth of it all, without going in too
deep. I arrived in Rome, and it’s like John Wayne said. Spend one year
in Monument Valley and you don’t have to act.
PITT: There are some longer scenes, which
I still adore, but which don’t seem as palatable anymore in the cinema
experience. I understand that The Two Popes will come out in
theaters, and then on Netflix. I really like that we have these
streaming services, because I’m seeing gutsy material. I’m seeing
material that studios aren’t able to gamble on. Through streaming
services, artists are the ones who are able to gamble. I feel like
cinema is being reduced more and more to spectacle, something more
sensational. I don’t mean that as a negative, but I’m seeing more
thought-provoking pieces like The Two Popes being done, and I’m pretty grateful for it.
HOPKINS: It’s wonderful. I watched The Tree of Life again, and then I went back into The Thin Red Line [also directed by Terrence Malick], on streaming. I’ve watched some amazing series, British things, episodical things.
PITT: Killing Eve was good.
HOPKINS: Have you seen Happy Valley?
PITT: I haven’t.
HOPKINS: I’m not a great fan of going to movies anymore. Except, for example, I went to see Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood.
I’m not great at going to see the green screen films. I’ve been in a
few of them and they’re fun, but they don’t grab me. I’m a bit too old
for that.
PITT: It’s exactly that. It’s fun.
HOPKINS: People ask me questions about
present situations in life, and I say, “I don’t know, I’m just an actor.
I don’t have any opinions. Actors are pretty stupid. My opinion is not
worth anything. There’s no controversy for me, so don’t engage me in it,
because I’m not going to participate.”
PITT: I feel the same. I don’t care. I’m
glad things are always evolving and changing, and complaining about it
won’t do any good. You work with what you have. Like digital, they’re
doing amazing things with it, so I don’t lament that film is being used
less and less.
What about the responsibility you feel when playing a real-life character? There’s no way to get the actual life, beat-by-beat, of a person, but you aim for an essence, correct?
What about the responsibility you feel when playing a real-life character? There’s no way to get the actual life, beat-by-beat, of a person, but you aim for an essence, correct?
HOPKINS: Oliver Stone gave me the part of
Nixon, and I remember thinking, “Why would he give me that part?” And
he said, “Because I’ve read interviews about you being a loner. That was
Nixon.” So I watched a lot of Nixon films. I went down to Yorba Linda,
California, to see the house where he was born. Bill Clinton told me
that when he became president, he would phone Nixon every week.
PITT: Really?
HOPKINS: He’d ask him about China and
Russia. Clinton said this of him: He was a brilliant politician, but
there was something in him that was so insecure. And Oliver just tried
to portray the man as he was—neither good or bad, but a man who makes
mistakes, as we all do. I found it very emotional to play him, because I
could feel what it must have been like, the disgrace of having to
resign. And then the humiliation of having to say goodbye.
PITT: Getting on the helicopter.
HOPKINS: And then I read about his wife. She couldn’t bear to look down at the lawn of the White House as they took off.
PITT: It’s a fascinating story from a humanistic point of view. The indelible moment for me was when he—you—have the moment of, “Why don’t they like me?”
HOPKINS: That’s it. You can see the pain
in him, and you think, “Well, am I better than him? No. I’m not better
than him. I’ve got my own immoral quirks.”
PITT: In some way, it comes back to fate.
HOPKINS: Yes. Why do we do the things we
do? We have no idea. I don’t know why I drank all my life. I did it
because it was the only thing I knew. I look back now and I think,
“Well, it wasn’t bad, but I don’t want to do it again.” I caused a bit
of damage then, but I’ve made my apologies to people for doing what I
did. It’s all part of being alive. And whatever power there is in us,
it’s forgiving. It’s over. Forget it. Just move on.
PITT: I find that beautiful. And it makes
me think of how prone we are to want to see things in black and white,
and not really investigate the grays.
HOPKINS: There’s a wonderful Marlon
Brando documentary, and there’s one scene of him with his father. He’s
the greatest actor ever, but his father never even gave him
acknowledgement. There’s a shot of his father, sitting down next to his
son, and Mike Wallace asks, “So, what do you think of your son’s
success?” And his father says, “Yeah, it’s okay.” And you see the hurt
in Brando. I cried. The thing about me is, I cry at the drop of a hat,
because everything moves me, because I’m getting old. Inside, we get the
wallpaper stripped off all of our defenses, bit by bit, clawed away. Do
you cry often?
PITT: I am quite famously a not-crier. Is
that a term? I hadn’t cried in, like, 20 years, and now I find myself,
at this latter stage, much more moved—moved by my kids, moved by
friends, moved by the news. Just moved. I think it’s a good sign. I
don’t know where it’s going, but I think it’s a good sign.
HOPKINS: You’ll find, as you get older, that you just want to weep.
PITT: Really?
HOPKINS: Yes. It’s not even about grief. It’s about the glory of life.
PITT: I see as much joy in your face as
on the day I met you, if not more. I’ve been playing with sculpture in a
sculpting studio the last few years, and our mutual friend said you’ve
been painting like a banshee. What is it about that? To me, it’s another
form of creating, but why is it meaningful to you?
HOPKINS: It’s meaningful to me because it
keeps me out of trouble. It keeps me off the streets. Before Stella and
I got married, she found scripts of mine with drawings in them. She
said, “I want you to do some pictures for the wedding, a party gift.” I
said, “I can’t.” She said, “Well, what are these? Just do them.” She had
them framed and given out. And then she said, “Right, now I want you to
start painting.” I said, “I can’t paint.” She said, “Will they put you
in jail? Paint.” So I got a studio with canvases and I started painting,
and I started selling them. And in the studio, in Malibu, I had some
paintings hung up there, by the pool, and Stan Winston, who was a
bonafide artist, came over for a barbecue, and he came into the studio
to have a pee. I happened to be in there, and he said, “Who did all
these?” I said, “I did.” He said, “Why are you pulling your face like
that?” I said, “Well, I have no training.” He said, “Don’t take one
lesson. You’ve got it. You’re an artist. You can paint. I couldn’t do
that because I’m an academic painter, but you’re free.”
PITT: Isn’t it exciting when you realize that there’s so much to be discovered, and new things that you love doing?
HOPKINS: People say, “What’s your
vision?” I say, “I don’t have any vision. I go in, look at the canvas,
and just plop paint on it.”
PITT: How long can you lose yourself in there?
HOPKINS: All day.
PITT: I find that some days in the studio
are arduous and lonely and monotonous, and other days I find it
sensuous and beautiful—things are flowing, and it’s sublime.
HOPKINS: Beautiful, isn’t it?
PITT:
As actors, what we do is a team sport. Making a film takes everyone.
And we contribute what we contribute. Sometimes it’s going to be better
than what we gave on the day. Sometimes it’s weaker than what we gave on
the day. But it’s a team effort. I was really struck by this longing,
this need to do something autonomous. I feel like it’s spiritual.
HOPKINS: It’s important to do it for the passion, the sheer enjoyment, the life force, but to not take it too seriously.
PITT: Fuck it.
HOPKINS: Fuck it! It works. I think,
sitting here, that it sounds very touchy-feely, but it’s that infant
side of us. I carry a photograph of myself in my phone, of when I was
just a little boy on the beach. I look at him and I say, “We did okay,
kid.”
PITT: When you say that, I don’t think you’re talking about worldly success.
HOPKINS: No.
PITT: I think you’re talking about the game of being human.
HOPKINS: Well, it’s such a mystery when
our first memories are made. I can remember that day on the beach with
my father. I’d been crying, because I’d lost a little candy he had given
me in the sand. And that frightened little boy—who was destined to grow
up and be an idiot at school, clueless, alone, lonely, angry, all those
things—I look at him and say, “We did okay.” And the fact is that one
day we’ll be gone. Our parents are gone. Most of my friends I’ve known
have gone. I was driving around Venice the other day, and I thought,
“It’s all a dream. What a struggle it all is. It’s all an illusion, but
it’s the glory of life, the sheer glory of looking for it in
everything.” And I’ve become aware of that now, more than ever. It’s in
there. It’s in my cat, it’s in my dog, it’s in you. How could it be
otherwise? I watch my cat jumping to a little pinch on the fireplace.
Now, he can’t write a book, he doesn’t know anything about philosophy or
mathematics. But how the hell does he do that? That is totally
awe-inspiring.
PITT: What I hear you saying is that as
we get older, we get out of our minds, and we’re able to witness the
beauty and the wonder that we’re surrounded by in every minute detail.
We miss that when we’re young.
HOPKINS: We’re too busy.
PITT: With our own.
HOPKINS: But that’s a necessary part of growing up. Are you feeling that rising power of life?
PITT: Very much so.
HOPKINS: It shows in you.
PITT: I really feel it outside. I feel it
in nature, which I did have moments of when I was a child. But I’m so
much more aware of it now, and more in tune with it. There’s so much
mystery and so much wonder, and I’m good with that.
HOPKINS: It’s great, isn’t it?
---
#OnceUponATimeInHollywood's Quentin Tarantino has won the National Board of Review award for Best Director. Brad Pitt takes the award for Best Supporting Actor: https://t.co/WkqWMThiZP pic.twitter.com/0JnTKoBWxi— IndieWire (@IndieWire) December 3, 2019
We are pleased to announce the Atlanta Film Critics Circle 2019 Awards: Best Supporting Actor: Brad Pitt in 'Once Upon a Time ... in Hollywood' #OnceUponATimeInHollywood @OnceInHollywood #AFCC2019Awards pic.twitter.com/rj35RE20EE— Atlanta Film Critics Circle (@ATLFilmCritics) December 2, 2019
